ok here's (part of) the original post that Farkers discussing
Full version is here:
How could it be that graduate students delivered such appallingly poor papers and presentations? They'd gotten undergraduate degrees; why couldn't they write in sentences? Why were they devoid of originality, analytical ability, intellectual curiosity? Why were they accosting me with hostile e-mails when I pointed out unsubstantiated generalizations, hyperbolic assumptions, ungrounded polemics, sourcing omissions, and possible plagiarism?
The sad thing is, I'm not alone. Every college teacher I know is bemoaning the same kind of thing. Whether it's rude behavior, lack of intellectual rigor, or both, we are all struggling with the same frightening decline in student performance and academic standards at institutions of higher learning. A sense of entitlement now pervades the academy, excellence be damned.
Increasingly, students seem not to realize what a college degree, especially a graduate degree, tells the world about one's abilities and competence. They have no clue what is expected of them at the higher levels of academic discourse and what will be expected of them in the workplace. Having passed through a deeply flawed education system in which no one is paying attention to critical thinking and writing skills, they just want to know what they have to do to make their teachers tick the box that says "pass." After all, that's what all their other teachers have done. (Let the next guy worry about it.)
When teachers refuse to lower standards, those students seem to resort to a new code of conduct that includes acted-out rage, lack of respect, and blame.
Kids these days. Back in MY day, they had respect for their elders! We'd never....grumble grumble....zzzzzzzzz.....
Some students don't seem to understand that they are paying for the opportunity to learn from experts in various fields. They are not paying for grades, they are not paying for a degree, they are not paying to be spoon-fed. They are paying for an opportunity, and it's up to them to make use of it. As an instructor, I will do my best to supply them with the material and background they need to make good use of their opportunity. However, if they cannot or do not master the course goals I will give them a grade that indicates as much.
There are many students who seem to have an entitlement complex. There are many more who appreciate their education and joys to have in the classroom.
There are many students who seem to have an entitlement complex. There are many more who appreciate their education and joys to have in the classroom.
If only there was some sort of system, an institution if you will, that could inspire intellectual growth and curiosity.
My law school education was the first intellectually challenging experience of my life. We were held to a high standard and if you didn't like it, you failed and ultimately were kicked out.
so i'm in college (state school and community college) right now and i'd like to complain about the teachers. teachers suck. teachers have gotten progressively lazier and as a result, students are lazier. teachers don't want to grade anything anymore, so every test i take is multiple choice bubbled in on a scantron. we can't see the tests after we turn them in because the teachers want to reuse the same questions over and over again.
in both of my spanish classes last year, we were required to pay a private online company to assign, collect, and grade our homework. i refused to do it and took the 10% hit in my grade.
in my science class, i was required to buy a clicker (and pay a fee to a private company to register it for the class), which is an electronic device that we used to take quizzes. it directly uploads our grades to a website because apparently my teacher waddling her fat ass over to the other side of campus with an armful of scantrons just became too taxing.
i had a medical terminology teacher that had no lesson plan. she just stood in front of the class and read word for word from the book. and the worst part is that she couldn't even pronounce several of the words...even the easily pronouncable ones. i can't believe she gets paid for what she does.
i do get incredibly frustrated at the amount of biatching that goes on by my classmates and i will admit that we're a lazy group, but it's time for teachers to take responsibility too.
in both of my spanish classes last year, we were required to pay a private online company to assign, collect, and grade our homework. i refused to do it and took the 10% hit in my grade.
in my science class, i was required to buy a clicker (and pay a fee to a private company to register it for the class), which is an electronic device that we used to take quizzes. it directly uploads our grades to a website because apparently my teacher waddling her fat ass over to the other side of campus with an armful of scantrons just became too taxing.
i had a medical terminology teacher that had no lesson plan. she just stood in front of the class and read word for word from the book. and the worst part is that she couldn't even pronounce several of the words...even the easily pronouncable ones. i can't believe she gets paid for what she does.
i do get incredibly frustrated at the amount of biatching that goes on by my classmates and i will admit that we're a lazy group, but it's time for teachers to take responsibility too.
While I agree that basic skill levels have declined over the last twenty years, and many students have an inflated sense of entitlement, much of the problem seems the be the author's approach to teaching. In most cases if you are approachable and are willing to explain why you set standards, the students respond positively. If you choose to be an unapproachable autocrat, expect rebellion from the class.
I don't know so much about writing skill among recent graduates, but I do know that we get new teachers in the public school system who know absolutely NOTHING outside of their own limited area of learning.
If they are an English teacher you can talk to them about literature, but if you mention even the most commonly known things about history or science they blank out. And vice versa for the other subject areas.
What ever happened to curiosity?
As much as we make fun of each other here on Fark, I find that the discussions always contain a fairly large number of people who know what they are talking about and even more who at least know a little about the subject.
If they are an English teacher you can talk to them about literature, but if you mention even the most commonly known things about history or science they blank out. And vice versa for the other subject areas.
What ever happened to curiosity?
As much as we make fun of each other here on Fark, I find that the discussions always contain a fairly large number of people who know what they are talking about and even more who at least know a little about the subject.
... In most cases if you are approachable and are willing to explain why you set standards, the students respond positively.
I don't doubt that is true, I would also like to confront the students with the fact that if you pass them through an easy course they will not learn anything, and ignorance will never help them.
Challenge them to learn so that they know what they are talking about.
I don't doubt that is true, I would also like to confront the students with the fact that if you pass them through an easy course they will not learn anything, and ignorance will never help them.
Challenge them to learn so that they know what they are talking about.
How's your lecture format? If there's one thing that drove me nuts, it was people who did nothing but read off Powerpoint slides.
I teach art history. Most Powerpoint slides are images, a few are text that emphasizes key vocabulary words or historical events concurrent to the art. I use them as launching points for lectures, never just read them. And I agree, if you're just going to read the Powerpoint, email me the Powerpoint and I'll look at it at home in my pajamas. :)
To be fair, I think you're doing your students a grave disservice by not preparing them for the legions of idiots with MBAs and business degrees who have, as their only apparent skill, the remarkable ability to read, verbatim, every powerpoint slide in their presentation while completely ignoring any and all signs of suffering from the tortured listeners no matter how loud the anguished wails become.
It should be considered self defense to fashion a stale bagel into a shiv and cut those people's throats to make them stop.
I teach art history. Most Powerpoint slides are images, a few are text that emphasizes key vocabulary words or historical events concurrent to the art. I use them as launching points for lectures, never just read them. And I agree, if you're just going to read the Powerpoint, email me the Powerpoint and I'll look at it at home in my pajamas. :)
To be fair, I think you're doing your students a grave disservice by not preparing them for the legions of idiots with MBAs and business degrees who have, as their only apparent skill, the remarkable ability to read, verbatim, every powerpoint slide in their presentation while completely ignoring any and all signs of suffering from the tortured listeners no matter how loud the anguished wails become.
It should be considered self defense to fashion a stale bagel into a shiv and cut those people's throats to make them stop.
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